Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?

MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!

CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
responsibility area)

They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
wreckage.

YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
NUMB NUTS

Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????

Dig my friends down deep into the real story.

An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
system malfunction produced the error.

But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
will not address the real cause

Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
males)from the FAA.

Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??

I rest my case

Damn!! It's plain as the nose on your face, and I was too stupid to
see it.

It's blacks, women, (and that damnable combination, black women) and
homosexuals that caused this breach of security (not to mention black
homosexual women, the deadliest combination of all).

Christ, but it's good to know we have people around still that can cut
through all the bull**** and see the root cause of all our problems.





On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:

>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>
>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>
>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>responsibility area)
>
>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>wreckage.
>
>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>NUMB NUTS
>
>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>
>Dig my friends down deep into the real story.
>
>An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
>system malfunction produced the error.
>
>But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
>will not address the real cause
>
>Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
>and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
>males)from the FAA.
>
>Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
>moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??
>
>I rest my case

You are blinded by politically correct brainwashing my
friend. Like I said. Dig into it do not be blinded by
outdated and head in the sand sarcasm.

Check it out. The facts may surprise you


wrote:
> Damn!! It's plain as the nose on your face, and I was too stupid to
> see it.
>
> It's blacks, women, (and that damnable combination, black women) and
> homosexuals that caused this breach of security (not to mention black
> homosexual women, the deadliest combination of all).
>
> Christ, but it's good to know we have people around still that can cut
> through all the bull**** and see the root cause of all our problems.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>>
>>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>>
>>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>>responsibility area)
>>
>>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>>wreckage.
>>
>>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>>NUMB NUTS
>>
>>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>>
>>Dig my friends down deep into the real story.
>>
>>An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
>>system malfunction produced the error.
>>
>>But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
>>will not address the real cause
>>
>>Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
>>and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
>>males)from the FAA.
>>
>>Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
>>moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??
>>
>>I rest my case
>
>

Ah yes...


blinded...


Brainwashed...

Head in the sand...




On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:05 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:

>You are blinded by politically correct brainwashing my
>friend. Like I said. Dig into it do not be blinded by
>outdated and head in the sand sarcasm.
>
>Check it out. The facts may surprise you
>
>
wrote:
>> Damn!! It's plain as the nose on your face, and I was too stupid to
>> see it.
>>
>> It's blacks, women, (and that damnable combination, black women) and
>> homosexuals that caused this breach of security (not to mention black
>> homosexual women, the deadliest combination of all).
>>
>> Christ, but it's good to know we have people around still that can cut
>> through all the bull**** and see the root cause of all our problems.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>>>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>>>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>>>
>>>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>>>
>>>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>>>responsibility area)
>>>
>>>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>>>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>>>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>>>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>>>wreckage.
>>>
>>>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>>>NUMB NUTS
>>>
>>>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>>>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>>>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>>>
>>>Dig my friends down deep into the real story.
>>>
>>>An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
>>>system malfunction produced the error.
>>>
>>>But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
>>>will not address the real cause
>>>
>>>Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
>>>and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
>>>males)from the FAA.
>>>
>>>Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
>>>moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??
>>>
>>>I rest my case
>>
>>

Your rebuttal is one of the easiest responses when
confronted with limited content and personal ability. If
your goal is to turn ones own accusations or opinions
against themselves, your effective but very outdated
response methodology is antiquated.

You must remember that when speaking or corresponding with
people over a 80 IQ. Try that approach on alt.flame.gay





wrote:
> Ah yes...
>
>
> blinded...
>
>
> Brainwashed...
>
> Head in the sand...
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:05 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> > wrote:
>
>
>>You are blinded by politically correct brainwashing my
>>friend. Like I said. Dig into it do not be blinded by
>>outdated and head in the sand sarcasm.
>>
>>Check it out. The facts may surprise you
>>
>>
wrote:
>>
>>>Damn!! It's plain as the nose on your face, and I was too stupid to
>>>see it.
>>>
>>>It's blacks, women, (and that damnable combination, black women) and
>>>homosexuals that caused this breach of security (not to mention black
>>>homosexual women, the deadliest combination of all).
>>>
>>>Christ, but it's good to know we have people around still that can cut
>>>through all the bull**** and see the root cause of all our problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>>>>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>>>>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>>>>
>>>>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>>>>responsibility area)
>>>>
>>>>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>>>>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>>>>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>>>>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>>>>wreckage.
>>>>
>>>>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>>>>NUMB NUTS
>>>>
>>>>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>>>>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>>>>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>>>>
>>>>Dig my friends down deep into the real story.
>>>>
>>>>An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
>>>>system malfunction produced the error.
>>>>
>>>>But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
>>>>will not address the real cause
>>>>
>>>>Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
>>>>and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
>>>>males)from the FAA.
>>>>
>>>>Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
>>>>moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??
>>>>
>>>>I rest my case
>>>
>>>
>

Ah yes...


antiquated...


On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:52:58 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:

>
>Your rebuttal is one of the easiest responses when
>confronted with limited content and personal ability. If
>your goal is to turn ones own accusations or opinions
>against themselves, your effective but very outdated
>response methodology is antiquated.
>
>You must remember that when speaking or corresponding with
>people over a 80 IQ. Try that approach on alt.flame.gay
>
>
>
>
>
wrote:
>> Ah yes...
>>
>>
>> blinded...
>>
>>
>> Brainwashed...
>>
>> Head in the sand...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:05 -0400, DrunkKlingon
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You are blinded by politically correct brainwashing my
>>>friend. Like I said. Dig into it do not be blinded by
>>>outdated and head in the sand sarcasm.
>>>
>>>Check it out. The facts may surprise you
>>>
>>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>Damn!! It's plain as the nose on your face, and I was too stupid to
>>>>see it.
>>>>
>>>>It's blacks, women, (and that damnable combination, black women) and
>>>>homosexuals that caused this breach of security (not to mention black
>>>>homosexual women, the deadliest combination of all).
>>>>
>>>>Christ, but it's good to know we have people around still that can cut
>>>>through all the bull**** and see the root cause of all our problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>>>>>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>>>>>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>>>>>
>>>>>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>>>>>responsibility area)
>>>>>
>>>>>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>>>>>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>>>>>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>>>>>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>>>>>wreckage.
>>>>>
>>>>>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>>>>>NUMB NUTS
>>>>>
>>>>>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>>>>>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>>>>>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>>>>>
>>>>>Dig my friends down deep into the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>>An FAA Air Traffic F^&% up OR some type of FAA technical
>>>>>system malfunction produced the error.
>>>>>
>>>>>But, our Politically Correct Society like the 9/11 disaster
>>>>>will not address the real cause
>>>>>
>>>>>Unqualified Minority Managers within the Federal "Guvment"
>>>>>and the exodus of the best and brightest( mostly white
>>>>>males)from the FAA.
>>>>>
>>>>>Imagine if NASA was run by Black Females back during the
>>>>>moon race. Would we have gone to the moon in 1969??
>>>>>
>>>>>I rest my case
>>>>
>>>>
>>

DrunkKlingon > wrote in news:i5Kge.14084$eJ4.12338
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

> Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
> ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
> close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????

You propose a no-fly zone with a 250 mile radius around the White House?
What have you been smoking, DrunkKlansman? That simply isn't possible.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:55:06 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:

>Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
>ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
>close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????


Because the guys on the Kennedy are much more critical to the
well-being of the American people that anybody in the White House?

DrunkKlingon wrote:
> Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
> (Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
> Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>
> MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>
> CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
> responsibility area)
>
> They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
> it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
> problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
> render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
> wreckage.
>
> YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
> NUMB NUTS
>
>

Sure, lets raise the paranoia level until we are shooting down
everything near downtown DC. Then we can go ahead and open up
the downtown airport to all private craft as well. Why ? Well,
by that time, everything south of a large airline is going to
be scared to death of going within 100 miles of DC, and the
airlines are probally going to insist on on fighter escorts just
to ensure no accidents.

Heres another idea: Have the airlines land outside DC and pick
up a military pilot to proceed into downtown. Big ships do
that.

My god, you are an idiot.

On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:06:49 -0700, Scott Moore
> wrote:

<snip... what ever it was>
>
>Heres another idea: Have the airlines land outside DC and pick
>up a military pilot to proceed into downtown. Big ships do
>that.
>
No, no, no... You have to bus them in.
However that's not going to be a problem as half the states are
refusing to go along with the new drivers license program and the feds
say people from those states won't be able to board airliners if they
don't, so ... Airline traffic will drop to a dribble and every one
will be back to trains and buses anyway.

Of course they may require we who fly smaller planes learn to read a
map and get a flight briefing before starting out.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


>My god, you are an idiot.

To bring just a little sensibility to this thread that started stupidly
and racist enough:
There IS something I've been wondering about. Forget the student because
he's just a student and may not have known better. But the other guy was an
instructor from what we read. With that being the case, I have some
questions and/or comments to throw in here.
The planned trip was quite a distance away so this supposedly
knowledgeable instructor must have filed a VFR flight plan as is accepted
practice for ANY responsible pilot. If so, and they wandered toward the
White House, would they not have been in a discussion with at least the FSS
of the area. And if they weren't talking to anyone, and their 1200
transponder blip was seen heading toward the White House, would it not have
been a simple thing for the FSS to take a look at all the VFR flight plans
in the area for that time and figured out who it might be and try to raise
them on the radio WAY before the 150 got so close to the White House?
Additionally (and if it were me), I would have asked for Flight
Following as is MY custom for any cross country VFR flights. No, they may
not have asked for that, but I would have thought that they would have for
the purpose of getting the student more radio time which is an important
part of the pilot's learning process.
Bottom line is that I have to wonder: Weren't they talking to ANYBODY
after they took off? Are we to think that a C150 owned by a flying club had
no radio?
For my part, I have to think that they WERE talking to somebody and that
we will eventually find out that some responsibility may rests with the FAA
in some capacity.
Unfortunately for DrunkKlingon, there is a good chance that if that
happens, there is a good probability that the person will turn out to be
white :-)

MJC


"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message
...
> DrunkKlingon > wrote in news:i5Kge.14084$eJ4.12338
> @bignews4.bellsouth.net:
>
> > Look at the protection radius around a nuke carrier in the
> > ocean??? 250 miles!! Good god a plane would NEVER get that
> > close to the USS John F Kennedy why the F^&% the White House????
>
> You propose a no-fly zone with a 250 mile radius around the White House?
> What have you been smoking, DrunkKlansman? That simply isn't possible.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stan
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>
> However that's not going to be a problem as half the states are
> refusing to go along with the new drivers license program and the feds
> say people from those states won't be able to board airliners if they
> don't, so ...
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)

Well that's a new twist. So ALL the residents of any state that
don't sign on to the new program will be barred from flying on
the airlines? And you thing that's really going to happen? I'd like
to have you site a federal govt source for that statement so that
we can go read it for ourselves.

So Mr. Klingon, why don't you give us some figures on the percentage of
minorities in management positions within the FAA, and how those
figures are trending before you rest your case. And while you're at it
could you also share the percentage of those said rank and file
employees that happen to be minorities? If it's anywhere near the
percentage of professional minority pilots then it's probably around 3%
or less. We have had failures in numerous aspects of our governmental
apparatus, whether it be the space program, the military, homeland
security, or intelligence. And from what I can tell minorities weren't
running the show.

Dave

All responders so far are all clueless or FAA employees.

You must all work for the "Guvment" huh??

Anyway some clarification for the stupid people. You know
who you are. Maybe you don't know who you are???

I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles(For you dip
****s that I hope do not even wash planes besides fly them)

I said PROPERLY IDENTIFY THEM AND ROUTE THEM AND TRACK THEM

The FAA's JOB for the stupid people again

The FAA failed miserably again with the DC chaos just like
the 4 airliners who drove hundreds of miles OFF TRACK on the
FAA watch during 9/11 DUMMY

I NEVER proposed a no-fly(for the stupid people who are
blinded by the instant protection of worthless unqualified
dead weight in the "Guvment" by calling names)

Sometimes, you must listen to people who state not
politically correct terms or opinions. Our country was
founded on sharp edged speech and opinion MORON(s)

UNLESS YOU ARE really Chinese spies

However, due to your limited intellectual ability to see
past your ass(drunkklansman attack rhetoric etc.)I am no
longer responding to stupid people.

Drive a cab please not an airplane. Or go get ya a "Guvment" Job

You sir, are the IDIOT


Scott Moore wrote:
> DrunkKlingon wrote:
>
>>Face it, the FAA is on the decline. The Potomac Tracon
>>(Managed by unqualified FAA Government minorities) allowed a
>>Cessna 150 within 3 miles of the White House!!???!?!?!?
>>
>>MAJOR F^&% UP!!!!!!
>>
>>CNN this morning did not mention the FAA at all (Major
>>responsibility area)
>>
>>They also mentioned no big deal the F16's were on "top of
>>it" and could have blasted it from the sky. One major
>>problem. A flaming 150 loaded with radioactive waste would
>>render downtown DC useless and some people dead by falling
>>wreckage.
>>
>>YOU MUST STOP THE AIRCRAFT WAY THE HELL BEFORE 3 MILES
>>NUMB NUTS
>>
>>
>
>
> Sure, lets raise the paranoia level until we are shooting down
> everything near downtown DC. Then we can go ahead and open up
> the downtown airport to all private craft as well. Why ? Well,
> by that time, everything south of a large airline is going to
> be scared to death of going within 100 miles of DC, and the
> airlines are probally going to insist on on fighter escorts just
> to ensure no accidents.
>
> Heres another idea: Have the airlines land outside DC and pick
> up a military pilot to proceed into downtown. Big ships do
> that.
>
> My god, you are an idiot.
>

<SNIP>

A White Male with experience in "Guvment" in Washington at
the FAA Potomac TRACON??????????

You sir are on drugs

It will be a black male or female or white female in the
F*&$ up loop. I will bet you a paycheck on that one.

Am I Racist or are you a Politically Correct Brainwash Victim?

You go first with evidence and clarification please.



> Unfortunately for DrunkKlingon, there is a good chance that if that
> happens, there is a good probability that the person will turn out to be
> white :-)
>

On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:48:32 -0400, DrunkKlingon
> wrote:

>However, due to your limited intellectual ability to see
>past your ass(drunkklansman attack rhetoric etc.)I am no
>longer responding to stupid people.


Oh come on.

Just one more.

It's raining here and Jerry Springer isn't on today.

DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
>...

>Anyway some clarification ....
>
>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
>
>I NEVER proposed a no-fly

The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.



>
>I said PROPERLY IDENTIFY THEM AND ROUTE THEM AND TRACK THEM
>
>

The magic buzzword for this is ADIZ or Air Defense Identification Zone which
is currently about a 30 nautical mile radius around Reagan National Airport.
Expanding the ADIZ to 100 miles might not be a bad idea.

Here is a good map of the current Washington ADIZ and FRZ

http://www.richardcrouse.com/crouse/maps.html

DRunk asswipe...... You are one f**&^% up dude

Ted wrote:

> Expanding the ADIZ to 100 miles might not be a bad idea.

Its a terrible idea.. what they need to do is get rid of the ADIZ.
Its all eyewash bu&&&hit
joe

Ted wrote:
> DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
> >...
>
>
>>Anyway some clarification ....
>>
>>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
>>
>>I NEVER proposed a no-fly
>
>
> The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
> currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.
>
>
It's not measured at all from the WASHINGTON VOR. It's an irregularly
shaped blob which follows stupid-assed things like the isogonic line
from the 2001 sectional chart.

On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:32:06 -0400, Ron Natalie >
wrote:

>Ted wrote:
>> DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
>> >...
>>
>>
>>>Anyway some clarification ....
>>>
>>>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
>>>
>>>I NEVER proposed a no-fly
>>
>>
>> The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
>> currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.
>>
>>
>It's not measured at all from the WASHINGTON VOR. It's an irregularly
>shaped blob which follows stupid-assed things like the isogonic line
>from the 2001 sectional chart.


Doesn't it also follow a Maryland bike path?

On Sat, 14 May 2005 12:59:34 GMT, wrote:

> On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:32:06 -0400, Ron Natalie >
> wrote:
>
> >Ted wrote:
> >> DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
> >> >...
> >>
> >>
> >>>Anyway some clarification ....
> >>>
> >>>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
> >>>
> >>>I NEVER proposed a no-fly
> >>
> >>
> >> The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
> >> currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.
> >>
> >>
> >It's not measured at all from the WASHINGTON VOR. It's an irregularly
> >shaped blob which follows stupid-assed things like the isogonic line
> >from the 2001 sectional chart.
>
>
> Doesn't it also follow a Maryland bike path?
>
Seems to me that the irregular shape is all due to the Congress mandating a
15-mile zone around the Washington Monument. This may make a great landmark
for tourists and such, but as a precision navigation aid it leaves much to
be desired. :-)

If you look at the FRZ carefully, you can see that the FAA did a pretty good
job of trying to live within the law (as written) and something that pilots
might be able to recognize.

Of course, the events of the past week show that some pilots are such good
navigators that they should never be allowed out of their own backyards, and
even then, it might be wise to fence their yards in so that they don't
accidentally get lost there too!

--
Jay.
(remove dashes for legal email address)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:29:46 GMT, "OtisWinslow"
> wrote:

>
>"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>> However that's not going to be a problem as half the states are
>> refusing to go along with the new drivers license program and the feds
>> say people from those states won't be able to board airliners if they
>> don't, so ...
>> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>
>Well that's a new twist. So ALL the residents of any state that
>don't sign on to the new program will be barred from flying on
>the airlines? And you thing that's really going to happen? I'd like
>to have you site a federal govt source for that statement so that
>we can go read it for ourselves.

It was in the local newspaper and I don't remember who the official
quoted was. The story was out last week via AP with a title of "States
May Refuse to go along with Licensing Standard" or something similar.
The States are complaining that the federal mandate to the
standardized licensing system (with no funding) is more than they can
afford. I believe nearly half the states are saying, "no funding, no
complying", or if you want it, you pay for it.

The article made headlines on many papers and was one of the top
stories listed on the Excite news. The quote was some where around
the middle of the article.

I think the guy was using a bit of coercion, or outright
threatening/posturing with the hope that they will comply. He also
stated that such states would have to go through much more extensive
security checks before boarding (contradicting his previous statement
- if they can't board then why the additional security checks)

As it was a recent AP article it should still be available on-line if
you hit the right search string..

Do I think it'll happen? No, I don't. I think the guy was blowing
smoke as the economy could not stand even time for the extra security
checks let alone an outright ban.
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"MJC" > wrote in
:

> To bring just a little sensibility to this thread that started
> stupidly
> and racist enough:
> There IS something I've been wondering about. Forget the student
> because
> he's just a student and may not have known better. But the other guy
> was an instructor from what we read. With that being the case, I have
> some questions and/or comments to throw in here.
> The planned trip was quite a distance away so this supposedly
> knowledgeable instructor must have filed a VFR flight plan as is
> accepted practice for ANY responsible pilot.

Why supposedly knowledgeable? Most instructors these days have the
minimum time required for CFI certificate. Many know little more than
their students. I don't know about this guy, but from what little I've
seen that he's pretty green.

>If so, and they wandered
> toward the White House, would they not have been in a discussion with
> at least the FSS of the area.

FSS has no idea where you are. FSS has no radar, and is *not* an air
traffic control agency. They just take, open, and close flight plans,
and provide weather briefings.

>And if they weren't talking to anyone,
> and their 1200 transponder blip was seen heading toward the White
> House, would it not have been a simple thing for the FSS to take a
> look at all the VFR flight plans in the area for that time and figured
> out who it might be and try to raise them on the radio WAY before the
> 150 got so close to the White House?

No, it would not have been simple. Flight plans are not required, so
anyone at all could have been there.

> Additionally (and if it were me), I would have asked for Flight
> Following as is MY custom for any cross country VFR flights. No, they
> may not have asked for that, but I would have thought that they would
> have for the purpose of getting the student more radio time which is
> an important part of the pilot's learning process.

But few pilots actually do that, and it is certainly not required.

> Bottom line is that I have to wonder: Weren't they talking to
> ANYBODY
> after they took off? Are we to think that a C150 owned by a flying
> club had no radio?

I don't know, but they didn't have to talk to anyone, while VFR.

> For my part, I have to think that they WERE talking to somebody
> and that
> we will eventually find out that some responsibility may rests with
> the FAA in some capacity.

Well, maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Again, FSS has no responsibility
for any of this, and the pilots are not required to talk to anyone, nor
to file a flight plan. At first glance, it appears to be an
underqualified (read average) instructor and a student just tooling along
oblivious to everything. I would bet that they didn't file, didn't talk
to anyone, and the FAA had no clue as to who they were. I might turn out
to be wrong, but I doubt it.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Ron Natalie wrote in message
>...
>Ted wrote:
>> DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
>> >...
>>
>>
>>>Anyway some clarification ....
>>>
>>>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
>>>
>>>I NEVER proposed a no-fly
>>
>>
>> The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
>> currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.
>>
>>
>It's not measured at all from the WASHINGTON VOR. It's an irregularly
>shaped blob which follows stupid-assed things like the isogonic line
>from the 2001 sectional chart.

Hmmm.... I could have sworn that it was. Take a look at this FAA website
and see of you agree with me.

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_save_pages/detail_5_1254.html

....THE WASHINGTON DC METROPOLITAN AREA FLIGHT RESTRICTED ZONE (FRZ) ....

....IS DEFINED AS AN AREA BOUNDED BY A LINE BEGINNING AT THE...

....WASHINGTON /DCA/ VOR/DME 300 DEGREE RADIAL AT 15 NM ...

....THENCE CLOCKWISE ALONG THE DCA 15 NM ARC TO THE DCA 022 DEGREE RADIAL AT
15 NM

....THENCE SOUTHEAST VIA A LINE DRAWN TO THE DCA 049 DEGREE RADIAL AT 14
NM...

...THENCE SOUTH VIA A LINE DRAWN TO THE DCA 064 DEGREE RADIAL AT 13 NM...

....THENCE CLOCKWISE ALONG THE DCA 13 NM ARC TO THE DCA 282 DEGREE RADIAL AT
13 NM...

On Sun, 15 May 2005 02:02:34 GMT, "Ted" > wrote:

>
> Ron Natalie wrote in message
> >...
> >Ted wrote:
> >> DrunkKlingon > wrote in message
> >> >...
> >>
> >>
> >>>Anyway some clarification ....
> >>>
> >>>I did not say STOP ALL AIRCRAFT for 250 miles
> >>>
> >>>I NEVER proposed a no-fly
> >>
> >>
> >> The magic buzz word for this is a FRZ or Flight Restricted Zone which is
> >> currently 13 to 15 miles around the VOR/DME at Reagan National Airport.
> >>
> >>
> >It's not measured at all from the WASHINGTON VOR. It's an irregularly
> >shaped blob which follows stupid-assed things like the isogonic line
> >from the 2001 sectional chart.
>
> Hmmm.... I could have sworn that it was. Take a look at this FAA website
> and see of you agree with me.
>
> http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_save_pages/detail_5_1254.html
>
> ...THE WASHINGTON DC METROPOLITAN AREA FLIGHT RESTRICTED ZONE (FRZ) ....
>
> ...IS DEFINED AS AN AREA BOUNDED BY A LINE BEGINNING AT THE...
>
> ...WASHINGTON /DCA/ VOR/DME 300 DEGREE RADIAL AT 15 NM ...
>
> ...THENCE CLOCKWISE ALONG THE DCA 15 NM ARC TO THE DCA 022 DEGREE RADIAL AT
> 15 NM
>
> ...THENCE SOUTHEAST VIA A LINE DRAWN TO THE DCA 049 DEGREE RADIAL AT 14
> NM...
>
> ...THENCE SOUTH VIA A LINE DRAWN TO THE DCA 064 DEGREE RADIAL AT 13 NM...
>
> ...THENCE CLOCKWISE ALONG THE DCA 13 NM ARC TO THE DCA 282 DEGREE RADIAL AT
> 13 NM...
>
>
The definition is 15 miles from the Washington Monument (by Congressional
decree). It has been implemented in terms of distance from the VOR, and
some bridging lines based on the Class-B boiundaries. Things that have some
meaning in terms of aircraft navigation.
--
Jay.
(remove dashes for legal email address)

Jay Somerset wrote:

> The definition is 15 miles from the Washington Monument (by Congressional
> decree).

Perhaps this is overkill in the current era of GPS, but would sticking
whatever ground equipment DME requires onto (or next to) the Washington
Monument be so tough?

- Andrew

the DCA VOR/DME is only 2 miles south at N38 51 34.0 W77 02 11.4.
Seems to me that the FAA made a good call to use it.


Andrew Gideon wrote in message
ne.com>...
Jay Somerset wrote:

> The definition is 15 miles from the Washington Monument (by Congressional
> decree).

Perhaps this is overkill in the current era of GPS, but would sticking
whatever ground equipment DME requires onto (or next to) the Washington
Monument be so tough?

- Andrew

On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:01:05 -0400, Roger
> wrote:
<snip>
>>Well that's a new twist. So ALL the residents of any state that
>>don't sign on to the new program will be barred from flying on
>>the airlines? And you thing that's really going to happen? I'd like
>>to have you site a federal govt source for that statement so that
>>we can go read it for ourselves.
>
>It was in the local newspaper and I don't remember who the official
>quoted was. The story was out last week via AP with a title of "States
>May Refuse to go along with Licensing Standard" or something similar.
>The States are complaining that the federal mandate to the
>standardized licensing system (with no funding) is more than they can
>afford. I believe nearly half the states are saying, "no funding, no
>complying", or if you want it, you pay for it.

A bit more information:

It was part of a story on the "uniform licensing" across the states.
IOW the National ID card system, but they don't want to callit that.
To top it off they want to put machine readable chips in the licenses
which wouldn't be quite so bad, but they are going to use RFID tags.
The claim is the RFID tags only work at a distance of a few
centimeters, but tests show they work well up to about 20 meters with
the proper equipment.

Just think...you are in Malasia, or Iran, (pick a country), a
demonstration starts, and your passport which can be read up to 20
meters (60 feet) is saying...Hey, you with the reader, I'm the
American over here!.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>The article made headlines on many papers and was one of the top
>stories listed on the Excite news. The quote was some where around
>the middle of the article.
>
>I think the guy was using a bit of coercion, or outright
>threatening/posturing with the hope that they will comply. He also
>stated that such states would have to go through much more extensive
>security checks before boarding (contradicting his previous statement
>- if they can't board then why the additional security checks)
>
>As it was a recent AP article it should still be available on-line if
>you hit the right search string..
>
>Do I think it'll happen? No, I don't. I think the guy was blowing
>smoke as the economy could not stand even time for the extra security
>checks let alone an outright ban.
>>
>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>www.rogerhalstead.com